Curse

Ira Blinks · Aug 15, 2006, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMosesPHD

Out of about 100 elementalist skills, only 12 of these, the maintaining AoE spells, will cause PvE mobs to scatter.

that is a strange way to count... How many AoE spells are not causing scattering? How many of those do the damage worth half of their energy and recharge time? Get a clue, ok?

Quote:

Are mobs scattering for you? Because I've never seen mobs scatter from repeated blasting of non-maintaining AoE spells...ever.

Well, sucks to be you.
I can consistently reproduce scattering effect with just fireball+flameburst combo. I have often came across the case when MS followed by fast cast on Rodgorts (20% from ragos staff). Basically every fifth MS+rodgorts+fireball combo causes mobs to run. You don't see that very often because there is usually more than one ele involved and KD covers up for this effect, but when i'm nuking alone I see that all the time.

Xpl0iter · Aug 15, 2006, 04:23 PM // 16:23

a simple advice to those coming up with MORE REGEN ON ELE ENERGY BAR.
Kindly, zip it. I would hate to see another profession using ele primary for secondary skill usage purposes.

I gotta admit. The example of an ele climbing a coconut tree and chucking coconuts at u, when compared with meteor shower spell's behaviour, matches quite well. *sigh*

Sucks to be an ele, but alas, i love to suck i guess.

Jeremy Untouchable · Aug 15, 2006, 04:36 PM // 16:36

wouldnt completely removing exaustion fix eles? Just that change alone would make a lot of cool builds better, Say Dragon stomp followed by churning earth, then spike with OB flame, It works now, but you cant really keep it up, Without exaustion eles COULD keep up with warriors, (as they should) my 2 cents

Cynn Evennia · Aug 15, 2006, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by touboku tenshi

What i was thinking was that at least in ele's if they have more than 12 in energy storage then they should at least gain +1 energy regen it'd help a lot even if they had exaustion with them well that's wat i think...

As Xploiter pointed out, more energy pips would just make more E/x playing their secondary profession and just using the huge energy pool and the extra pip(s) of their elementalist line. My call is better rebates using attunements and a bonus on elemental damage instead of 3 energy points per Energy storage rank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremy untouchable

wouldnt completely removing exaustion fix eles? Just that change alone would make a lot of cool builds better, Say Dragon stomp followed by churning earth, then spike with OB flame, It works now, but you cant really keep it up, Without exaustion eles COULD keep up with warriors, (as they should) my 2 cents

I agree that exhaustion is very aggressive and should be removed from all spells except Gale and Shock. If ANET does not want ele spike using Obsidian flame then just modify it to 10 energy and 10 secs recharge instead of exhaustion and a tempting 5 secs recharge. And the Mind X without exhaustion would be nice, but now only the henchies and the foes use them.

Mordakai · Aug 15, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Or, just make Elementalists immune to Exhaustion.

That way, other classes can't spam Gale or Shock, but Eles still could.

LifeInfusion · Aug 15, 2006, 09:03 PM // 21:03

About exhaustion:
Energy Storage: Energy Boon, Ether Prodigy
Air Magic: Chain Lightning, Gale, Lightning Surge, Mind Shock, Ride the Lightning, Shock
Earth Magic: Dragon's Stomp, Earthquake, Obsidian Flame
Fire Magic: Meteor, Meteor Shower, Mind Burn, Double Dragon
Water Magic: Maelstrom, Mind Freeze
No Attribute: Second Wind

- Ride the Lightning (wtf why exhaustion, nothing special), Double Dragon (its sucks b/c of exhaustion), Chain Lightning (this needs its energy cost and recharge bumped up to 15 or 25 instead so fast cast me/e can't use it often), Mind Skills (Why???, you need a large amount of energy to get the bonus, exhaustion is counterproductive), & Second Wind (right, lose energy pool even more, gain energy) don't need exhaustion really
- Lightning Surge needs a 25% armor penetration
- Earthquake/Dragon's Stomp/Maelstrom/Meteor/Meteor Shower have on-hit effects = exhaustion

You see the trend is to give every knock down skill exhaustion, and almost every low recharge energy management skill elite status.

They ought to keep exhaustion, but give energy storage some effect on it, like a certain %age less everytime you have exhaustion. (3% faster recovery per rank?)

EDIT: and all of you that want regen just make the problem worse. You're just going to see rank 16 energy storage e/mo heal party & extinguish spammers, e/me with conjure nightmare, and other e/anything with 25 energy skills not form the ele skill lines.

Another thing. What needs to be done with attunements is having them scale with energy storage, like Healing Touch doubles divine favor. They need to make it that you gain 2-4x the energy storage level = energy gained back instead of a flat rate.

Redwinter · Aug 16, 2006, 05:42 AM // 05:42

I think there's two paths to take:

Path 1

Take Elementalists down the road to being the nukers they're touted as. Increase AoE for spells, and decrease damage. If elementalists are to be slanted as damage dealers, then recharge times and cast times need to be tweaked. The AoE buff is crucial to make nuking viable in PvP, with larger radiuses making it valuable for crowd control and adding to the amount of damage a spell inflicts on a fleeing foe.
In terms of path 1, the way elemental damage is calculated needs attention. An elementalist against a level 24+ deals piteous damage. Compare to:
- Warrior (Best DPS)
- Ranger (arguably hardest damage dealer to disable, plus ready condition application)
- Mesmer (Chaos damage ignores armor)
- Monk (holy damage ignores armor)
- Necromancer (dark damage ignores armor. Life stealing also ignores protection).
Path 2
Adknowledge that Elementalists are being slanted more towards utility, and give them the skills to pull that off. GWN is a good opportunity. More wards, useful energy management and glyphs, allowing them to be viable primaries ~and~ secondaries.
Glyphs could stand to have their cast time halved. As is, they're used in only a handful of situations, because the 1.75 seconds it takes to use them mitigates the effect.
Elementalists have a lot of promise for large effects that aren't just damage. If their damage is to be substandard to the other classes, I'd rather not have 25 of their 30 new skills be just damage dealing.

As for other suggestions, I think a new elementalist rune would go a long way. I don't know about everyone else, but I find I wind up with:

Superior [element] on head.
Minor Energy Storage on chest.
Superior Vigor on gloves
No rune on legs.
No rune on feet.

Seems like there's room for something.

Cynn Evennia · Aug 16, 2006, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

Another thing. What needs to be done with attunements is having them scale with energy storage, like Healing Touch doubles divine favor. They need to make it that you gain 2-4x the energy storage level = energy gained back instead of a flat rate.

That is a very good idea! I have asked to increase the energy rebate using attunements in order to have 80% back without the use of twin attunements, but after your idea i rephrase my proposal:

Now the X attunements give you 30% of the energy cost back. If you add an extra 2% of the energy back for each Energy storage rank it makes 2x13=26% extra, which is 56% extra. That would be enough to get rid of the twin attunements to cast continuously, would give us the chance to free our precious elite slot for a change when using a single element, and will buff the elite Elemental attunement when we use 2 elements (50+26=76%).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redwinter

As for other suggestions, I think a new elementalist rune would go a long way. I don't know about everyone else, but I find I wind up with:

Superior [element] on head.
Minor Energy Storage on chest.
Superior Vigor on gloves
No rune on legs.
No rune on feet.

Seems like there's room for something.

Someone has proposed a "rune of elemental power" that adds a % on the damage you inflict using elementalist's spells. I think that would be great.

EDIT: sorry for the wrong quoting

LifeInfusion · Aug 16, 2006, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Redwinter, to be honest I don't think the Elementalist needs more runes. Runes shouldn't be necessary to play a profession. For first time players, it it likely they will not have money to buy it anyway (especially if there is no HP decrease, which increases the cost exponentially).

I myself did not purchase superior absorption runes, I had to find them because it was in the 100K zone when I started off last year.

Cynn Evennia, you quoted Redwinter and put my Username.

Redwinter · Aug 16, 2006, 02:14 PM // 14:14

A lot of these changes, like removing Exhaustion from the lineup, or totally renovating the primary, would be a lot of work, a lot of tweaking, and weeks or months before the elementalist was a thriving class. (I say that because it's still viable, just not flourishing, like tulips in my garden).

The rune is a simple way to implement a change without an undue amount of work. Warriors got one, and it really flows. You can have a strength, tactics, weapon, health & absorption rune. Flows 100%.

Regardless, I think that Anet should just have a meeting, and talk about the Elementalist design philosophy. If they're to be nukers, their damage needs to flow better. If they are to be utility, then that's fine too, but we need more skills to help that along.

Cynn Evennia · Aug 18, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redwinter

Regardless, I think that Anet should just have a meeting, and talk about the Elementalist design philosophy. If they're to be nukers, their damage needs to flow better. If they are to be utility, then that's fine too, but we need more skills to help that along.

Id love to hear the official philosophy and then a commitment to fulfill it... sigh*

Cynn Evennia · Aug 21, 2006, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Just a thought.

The problem with elementalists is the "scaling" factor on damage. The damage dealt in terms of health % of a foe is awesome at low levels where one hit means boom shakalaka! but its a shame at high levels (foes above lvl 20 i mean). On the contrary, mesmers and necros keep dealing the same damage because their spells ignore armor. It makes me feel that the elementalist is excellent wiping out low lvl mobs, like an "anti-ant mop", but when it comes to fight a boss then necros and mesmers say "stay aside lil bro its time for real magic". Dont you all elementalists feel the same? at least Vassar, the mesmer trainer at presear, agrees with me.

Im afraid the people that call us all "eledramatics" see us as children playing with fireworks that whine when the big ants do not die as the little ants used to: well its true, why casting a Meteor shower vs moving foes if it hits for 21 dmg? better let big bros throw a Wastrels worry for 68 damage or a Vampiric Gaze for 63 damage.

Nevertheless, the Air line with its 25% armor penetration makes things not so hopeless, and if i face lvl 20 foes or humans i have some nice builds that deal very nice damage with fire magic, so not everything is lost for the Elementalists, we just need a little bit of make up here and there, for instance a hand on damage vs high armored foes, less exhaustion and a buff on attunements.

lennymon · Aug 21, 2006, 10:48 PM // 22:48

Here's what I wanna see, summon elemental

yeah you heard right. fire spec? cast summon fire elemental. a big frickin tank what makes the bad guys hair catch on fire and stuff.
Ice elemental attacks could cause some slow, air would get armor penetration of course and earth could have a chance to kd on hit

Cynn Evennia · Aug 21, 2006, 11:42 PM // 23:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lennymon

Here's what I wanna see, summon elemental

yeah you heard right. fire spec? cast summon fire elemental. a big frickin tank what makes the bad guys hair catch on fire and stuff.
Ice elemental attacks could cause some slow, air would get armor penetration of course and earth could have a chance to kd on hit

Hahaha you made me laugh like mad! haha... in the good sense.

I agree, a skill like Summon "elemental" would be cool and incredible. Thanks for the idea it made me fantasy and think on possibilities.

I dont like an ele playing MM so me one "elemental" at a time is ok. I think that only one "elemental" skill is adequate, either Fire or ES. If it is fire make set touched foe on fire for x secs. If its ES make it deal damage and give you x energy per hit landed.

In a second thought the fire elemental is the option: Summon Ignis Fatuus (will o the wisp in latin). Some people asked for a skill that mimics Mark of Rodgort (set on fire) without being a hex so your proposal is the exact solution. PLEASE DONT MAKE IT ELITE or no one would use it, as almost no one uses any of the elites that are not energy management skills or glyphs.

You should be able to summon an Ignis Fatuus from nowhere and it should be a common spell, not an enchantment. The Ignis fatuus should not have health degen as minions have but it must not be able to be healed.

Summon Ignis Fatuus
Energy Cost: 25
Casting Time: 3.00
Recharge Time: 30
Description: Summon a level x Fire spirit. The attacks of this spirit deal no damage but whenever it hits a foe that foe is set on fire for x secs.

Hyaon · Aug 22, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

It seems ele is forced into one element pve-wise, the most useful and damaging in my opinion, fire. Meteor/Shower with sup rune+glyph=18 fire attribute, starburst and fire dots do incredible single and aoe dmg with interrupts[kd] why choose the other elements? Sure they have blind/defense/slow/other interrupts, but other professions do those as well and better, they'll want a support damager behind them. I've gone through the missions and found the only things that got my ele killed were, poor tankers who didn't 'bung' the flow of the enemy properly.

Exhaustion did not affect me much, fire off met spells then spam fireball/starburst/fire dots and repeat. All it did was make sure I carefully chose the right moments to do my nuking and til then do single target damage/non-exhausting. I guess it stops me just aoe-ing away and not really looking at whats going on. Other fire eles probably struggle due to wrong skills/attributes/runes/equipment like my favourite lvl20 'newbs' who just firestorm [drives me mad!] In all, I've probably used about 10% of the ele skills that's available, doesn't seem right to me.

I can't comment on elementalist pvpwise as I'm not a pvper.

unmatchedfury · Aug 22, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

rits(channeling) need even more help than eles is all i can say.

Lady Revanche · Aug 22, 2006, 05:01 AM // 05:01

Though I've only just signed up, I've been lurking here for many moons. Still, please be gentle

I prefer the elementalist as a the massive damage dealer, at least in their primary role. All of the classes are given many different ways to be useful to a team, which I applaud. However, an elementalist that ranks somewhere around fourth or fifth in damage output amongst eight classes just doesn't seem right to me.

I would like to see something like the adrenaline mechanism implemented for elementalist spells. Obviously, not adrenaline, but some kind of charge that builds up over time (or perhaps with spells cast, or energy points used). This would have to be balanced with the energy pool and exhaustion mechanics. The "charge", once full, would then up the armor penetration, meaning the same spell with the same specs would suddenly do a lot more damage.

To keep this from being totally overpowered, of course, would be the amount of time/energy output/what-have-you required to get to full charge. This keeps with the massive-damage-in-limited-amounts concept of the elementalist.

There are several ways this could be implemented, none of which I've sat down and really thought through. So, rough ideas only:

1) The charge mechanism could be a skill/spell and take up a slot on the ele's bar. It would have instant cast, and once it was full, you'd hit it off before the spell you wanted the extra armor penetration on. That way, you could use any of your elemental spells whenever you want, but you would choose which spell and when to add in the armor penetration.

2) The charge mechanism could work very similarly to adrenaline, in which all damage spells (or whatever subset this mechanism was applied to) charged at the same time, and required differing numbers of strikes of adrenaline-equivalent before it could be used. This would make frontloading damage very difficult because of the build-up needed to make the high damage spells usable.

I'm sure there are othe ways as well, but these were the ones I thought of.

Thoughts, anyone?

Lady Revanche

dreamhunk · Aug 22, 2006, 05:38 AM // 05:38

makes me wonder why did anet even make the class?

even alot of the armors are made agisnt the elemental class

the foes run from nearly all of the elemental skills

Linkusmax · Aug 22, 2006, 07:31 AM // 07:31

The only effective fire build I have seen is the Glyph Of Renewal/Energizing Winds Fire Chain Burner.

Arcador · Aug 22, 2006, 07:54 AM // 07:54

The Ele is good, they just have to boost some of it's elites and skills (Ether Renewal ...not as the old one, but at least a little, Glimmering mark, Second wind...many of them are inferior compared to Ether Prodigy).